I was going to ask whether you think Rumsfeld is lying to us or lying to himself, but you think it's just wishful thinking?
Well that's a form of lying to yourself. If he really thinks that simply by gerrymandering vocabulary that you can turn a defeat into a victory, I would say I think that's a form of self-deception. You really think that our war effort in Iraq was successful, then yes, please give me a definition of victory.
I heard him on CNN the other day talking about Syria, and again with Iraq. They said that Iraq didn't turn out how we all thought, and he's like, "Who is saying that, tell me who is saying that." I just thought what?
I would say that he is in denial, which is kind of an understatement.
Which is why you find him so interesting.
Yeah. Indeed. Also I'm amazed that he's never been called on a lot of stuff. It actually does amaze me. I tell this story—I think it does illuminate something: I had a rough cut screening at MIT and a friend of mine who is a mathematician said, "You know it's all contradictions? He just talks in contradictions." And I said yes, thank you.
The very beginning of the film: If you want peace prepare for war, preparing for war can lead to war, tralalalala. And from a contradiction what can you do? My mathematician friend, she pointed this out to me. Why, from a contradiction you can prove anything!